The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. In short, NO! Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. AC R12 to R134A Conversion | MR2 Owners Club Forum For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. R12 to R134a change expansion valve? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . Bookmarks: Digg; del . We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. = R134a Charge Level. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. Amazon.com: 134a Valve I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. These differences in the valve size can be attributed to the correlation of the cooling capacity with the enthalpy difference and the mass flow, which in . The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. . If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). 5. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. of refrigerant insulation tape. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. Can I use the one for the R-12? Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. Your old hoses of course will not fit. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. . Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. This is the part that controls the system pressures. But R22 is almost equally damaging. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. Is there a graph? Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? Only show this user. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). R134a vs R12 refrigerant? Big . However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. Thanks for the input. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. A/C R12 to R134a Conversion Success | IH8MUD Forum I'm having the same concern. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . R134a. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. B. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. I'll put the relay on for that. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site. The AC usually does not work at all. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. #13. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. 2) Frost on the Vents. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. Sense ells no existirem. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. R-134a XV for R-134a use. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. What is a T/C?4. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. Safe but sorry! But R22 is almost equally damaging. So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. I have just bought gauges. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) had writing on the side that said R134a. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. Please enter a password for your user account. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. 3 ounces? But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. I think the way to go here is1. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . What effect would it have on performance, if any? You can also check the Aux fan in your case. R1234yf. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. Compressor. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. . Moreso, it had been banned. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. For R12, its mineral oil. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. . We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. That would be the "black death" syndrome. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. Remember, being aluminum, they lower the temps better, and do not pass off as much heat to the radiator, which then makes it's job easier and lowers underhood temps (besides lowering vent temps inside the car).