pagan continuity hypothesis pagan continuity hypothesis

So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? Brought to you by Wealthfront high-yield savings account, Peloton Row premium rower for an efficient workout, and You Need A Budget cult-favorite money management app.. Rick Rubin is a nine-time GRAMMY-winning producer, one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people in the world, and the most successful producer in any genre, according to Rolling Stone. There are others claiming that there's drugs everywhere. So in the mountains and forests from Greece to Rome, including the Holy Land and Galilee. Maybe for those facing the end of life. It would have parts of Greek mysticism in it, the same Greek mysteries I've spent all these years investigating, and it would have some elements of what I see in paleo-Christianity. The whole reason I went down this rabbit hole is because they were the ones who brought this to my attention through the generosity of a scholarship to this prep school in Philadelphia to study these kinds of mysteries. Nage ?] We know that at the time of Jesus, before, during, and after, there were recipes floating around. But the point being, if the Dionysian wine was psychedelic-- which I know is a big if-- I think the more important thing to show here in this pagan continuity hypothesis is that it's at least plausible that the earliest Christians would have at the very least read the Gospel of John and interpreted that paleo-Christian Eucharistic wine, in some communities, as a kind of Dionysian wine. I mean, something of symbolic significance, something monumental. Continuity Hypothesis - Keith E Rice's Integrated SocioPsychology Blog And by the way, I'm not here trying to protect Christianity from the evidence of psychedelic use. And I wonder whether the former narrative serves the interests of the latter. And I think that's an important distinction to make. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. The long and short of it is, in 1978 there was no hard scientific data to prove this one way or the other. So when Hippolytus is calling out the Marcosians, and specifically women, consecrating this alternative Eucharist in their alternative proto-mass, he uses the Greek word-- and we've talked about this before-- but he uses the Greek word [SPEAKING GREEK] seven times in a row, by the way, without specifying which drugs he's referring to. Now I want to get to the questions, but one last question before we move to the discussion portion. She had the strange sense that every moment was an eternity of its own. I am excited . I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. Not much. If you die before you die, you won't die when you die. And Hofmann famously discovers-- or synthesizes LSD from ergot in 1938. And very famous passages, by the way, that should be familiar to most New Testament readers. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? And Brian, it would be helpful for me to know whether you are more interested in questions that take up the ancient world or more that deal with this last issue, the sort of contemporary and the future. The Religion has a Name: "Shamanism" - AKJournals All he says is that these women and Marcus are adding drugs seven times in a row into whatever potion this is they're mixing up. Those religions featured psychedelic beer and ceremonies lead by women . When you start testing, you find things. Video: Psychedelics: The Ancient Religion with No Name? Mona Sobhani, PhD (@monasobhaniphd) / Twitter So there's lots of interesting details here that filter through. I'll invite him to think about the future of religion in light of all this. And she talks about the visions that transformed the way she thinks about herself. Like, what is this all about? Some number of people have asked about Egypt. The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart But curiously, it's evidence for a eye ointment which is supposed to induce visions and was used as part of a liturgy in the cult of Mithras. Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. The continuity theory of normal aging states that older adults will usually maintain the same activities, behaviors, relationships as they did in their earlier years of life. So we not only didn't have the engineering know-how-- we used to think-- we didn't have even settled life to construct something like this. I am so fortunate to have been selected to present my thesis, "Mythology and Psychedelics: Taking the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis a Step Further" at. Now, it's just an early indication and there's more testing to be done. This an absolute masterclass on why you must know your identity and goals before forming a habit, what the best systems are for habit. I think it's important you have made a distinction between what was Jesus doing at the Last Supper, as if we could ever find out. Which turns out, it may be they were. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. Now we're getting somewhere. What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. Leonardo Torres Pagan, PhD - Subject Matter Expert & Editor - LinkedIn Continuity Questions - 36 Questions About Continuity - QuestionDB And the second act, the same, but for what you call paleo-Christianity, the evidence for your suspicion that the Eucharist was originally a psychedelic sacrament. There's some suggestive language in the pyramid texts, in the Book of the Dead and things of this nature. It is not psychedelics. And it was the Jesuits who encouraged me to always, always ask questions and never take anything at face value. Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. I think the wine certainly does. Rather, Christian beliefs were gradually incorporated into the pagan customs that already existed there. He calls it a drug against grief in Greek, [SPEAKING GREEK]. The Tim Ferriss Show - Transcripts You know, it's an atheist using theological language to describe what happened to her. But I realized that in 1977, when he wrote that in German, this was the height of scholarship, at least going out on a limb to speculate about the prospect of psychedelics at the very heart of the Greek mysteries, which I refer to as something like the real religion of the ancient Greeks, by the way, in speaking about the Eleusinian mysteries. Copyright 2023 President and Fellows of Harvard College. But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. 1,672. There he is. But they charge Marcus specifically, not with a psychedelic Eucharist, but the use of a love potion. What's the importance of your abstention from psychedelics, given what is obvious interest. So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in And I want to-- just like you have this hard evidence from Catalonia, then the question is how to interpret it. And it seems to me that if any of this is right, that whatever was happening in ancient Greece was a transformative experience for which a lot of thought and preparation went into. And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. That they were what you call extreme beverages. So your presentation of early Christianity inclines heavily toward the Greek world. This time, tonight I'll say that it's just not my time yet. pagan continuity hypothesis - diamondamotel.com What was the real religion of the ancient Greeks? Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. As a matter of fact, I think it's much more promising and much more fertile for scholarship to suggest that some of the earliest Christians may have availed themselves of a psychedelic sacrament and may have interpreted the Last Supper as some kind of invitation to open psychedelia, that mystical supper as the orthodox call it, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. Was there any similarity from that potion to what was drunk at Eleusis? I'm not sure where it falls. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name Let me just pull up my notes here. And when I started to get closer into the historical period-- this is all prehistory. We have plays like the Bacchi from Euripides, where we can piece together some of this. 7:30 The three pillars to the work: the Eucharist as a continuation of the pharmako and Dionysian mysteries; the Pagan continuity theory; and the idea that through the mysteries "We can die before we die so that when we die we do not die" 13:00 What does "blood of Christ" actually mean; the implied and literal cannibalism "The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity" And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. And what does this earliest history tell us about the earliest evidence for an ancient psychedelic religion? I'm paraphrasing this one. But you go further still, suggesting that Jesus himself at the Last Supper might have administered psychedelic sacrament, that the original Eucharist was psychedelic. I can't imagine that there were no Christians that availed themselves of this biotechnology, and I can't imagine-- it's entirely plausible to me that they would mix this biotechnology with the Eucharist. And I guess my biggest question, not necessarily for you, but the psychedelic community, for what it's worth, or those who are interested in this stuff is how do we make this experience sacred? So imagine how many artifacts are just sitting in museums right now, waiting to be tested. #649: Rick Rubin, Legendary Music Producer The Creative Act Then I'll ask a series of questions that follow the course of his book, focusing on the different ancient religious traditions, the evidence for their psychedelic sacraments, and most importantly, whether and how the assembled evidence yields a coherent picture of the past. OK, Brian, I invite you to join us now. We have other textual evidence. And I feel like I accomplished that in the afterword to my book. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. Which, again, what I see are small groups of people getting together to commune with the dead. And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. So I'm trying to build the case-- and for some reason in my research, it kept coming back to Italy and Rome, which is why I focus on Hippolytus. I write it cognizant of the fact that the Eucharist doesn't work for many, many people. Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. The most influential religious historian of the twentieth century, Huston Smith, once referred to it as the "best-kept secret" in history. Even a little bit before Gobekli Tepe, there was another site unearthed relatively recently in Israel, at the Rakefet cave. BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. And that's where oversight comes in handy. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. All rights reserved. So I'll speak in language that you and our good colleague Greg [? There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. I took this to Greg [? That seems very believable, but there's nothing to suggest that the pharmacy or drug farm was serving Christians, or even that the potions produced were for ritual use. "Pagan" and "Christian" Marriage: The State of the Question Not because they just found that altar. But in any case, Ruck had his career, well, savaged, in some sense, by the reaction to his daring to take this hypothesis seriously, this question seriously. And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. Amazon.com: Customer reviews: The Immortality Key: The Secret History So whatever these [SPEAKING GREEK] libations incense were, the church fathers don't get into great detail about what may have been spiking them. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving But it was just a process of putting these pieces together that I eventually found this data from the site Mas Castellar des Pontos in Spain. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. Maybe I have that wrong. Correcting Key Points in Muraresku, The Immortality Key So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. This book by Brian Muraresku, attempts to answer this question by delving into the history of ancient secret religions dating back thousands of years. I wish the church fathers were better botanists and would rail against the specific pharmacopeia. I do the same thing in the afterword at the very end of the book, where it's lots of, here's what we know. They were relevant to me in going down this rabbit hole. So now it's true that these heresy hunters show an interest in this love potion. So throughout the book, you make the point that ancient beer and wine are not like our beer and wine. So what evidence can you provide for that claim? Psychedelics are a lens to investigate this stuff. So let's start, then, the first act. But I don't hold-- I don't hang my hat on that claim. But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. And I think we're getting there. But I think there's a decent scientific foothold to begin that work. There's also this hard evidence that comes out of an archaeological site outside of Pompeii, if I have it correct. And when I read psychedelic literature or I read the literature on near-death experiences, I see experiences similar to what I experienced as a young boy. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. But maybe you could just say something about this community in Catalonia. But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. It's not to say that there isn't evidence from Alexandria or Antioch. So somewhere between 1% and 49%. Is this only Marcus? And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? Phil's Picks | Phoenix Books The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. CHARLES STANG: Right. I think psychedelics are just one piece of the puzzle. The altar had been sitting in a museum in Israel since the 1960s and just hadn't been tested. So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. These are famous figures to those of us who study early Christianity. This limestone altar tested positive for cannabis and frankincense that was being burned, they think, in a very ritualistic way. It's arguably not the case in the third century. I might forward the proposition that I don't think the early church fathers were the best botanists. The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. And when you speak in that way, what I hear you saying is there is something going on. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. The book proposes a history of religious ritualistic psychedelic use at least as old as the ancient Greek mystery religions, especially those starting in Eleusis and dating to roughly 2,000 BC. You see an altar of Pentelic marble that could only have come from the Mount Pentelicus quarry in mainland Greece. It's not the case in the second century. So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! What's the wine? So, although, I mean, and that actually, I'd like to come back to that, the notion of the, that not just the pagan continuity hypothesis, but the mystery continuity hypothesis through the Vatican. The (Mistaken) Conspiracy Theory: In the Late Middle Ages, religious elites created a new, and mistaken, intellectual framework out of Christian heresy and theology concerning demons. What does ergotized beer in Catalonia have anything to do with the Greek mysteries at Eleusis? So there's a house preserved outside of Pompeii, preserved, like so much else, under the ash of Mount Vesuvius's eruption in the year 79 of the Common Era. he goes out on a limb and says that black nightshade actually causes [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is not unpleasant visions, i.e. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. That there is no hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data for spiked beer, spiked wine. And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? We have some inscriptions. I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? Eusebius, third into the fourth century, is also talking about them-- it's a great Greek word, [SPEAKING GREEK]. So back in 2012, archaeologists and chemists were scraping some of these giant limestone troughs, and out pops calcium oxalate, which is one of these biomarkers for the fermentation of brewing. That would require an entirely different kind of evidence. And that's what I get into in detail in the book. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show With more than 35 years of experience in the field of Education dedicated to help students, teachers and administrators in both public and private institutions at school, undergraduate and graduate level. 48:01 Brian's psychedelic experiences . I was satisfied with I give Brian Muraresku an "A" for enthusiasm, but I gave his book 2 stars.